9: How Do I Maintain Independence While Being in a Relationship?

May 21

How do you maintain independence while in a long-term relationship? In this episode, Amanda and Kelby unpack the delicate balance between partnership and independence. They open up about moments of feeling small, lost, or even trapped — and how those feelings often stem from within, not from their partners. Through honest conversation and personal stories, they explore what it really takes to maintain a strong sense of self while staying deeply connected.

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Book Recommendations

Big Magic: Creative Living Beyond Fear by Elizabeth Gilbert

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This podcast was transcribed by an AI tool called Castmagic. Please forgive any typos or errors.
Amanda Durocher [00:00:10]:
Love under the scope.
Amanda Durocher [00:00:16]:
Welcome to Love Under the Scope. I'm Amanda Durocher.
Amanda Durocher [00:00:19]:
And I'm Kelby Knutt. And this is a podcast where we explore all of the ins and outs, the ups and downs of being in a long term relationship with another human.
Amanda Durocher [00:00:32]:
And this week, we wanted to talk about how do I maintain independence while being in a relationship? We asked ChatGPT, what are some of the most common questions that people ask about relationships? And this was on the list, and I thought this was a really good one because I know that I have felt like I have lost myself in my own relationship before.
Amanda Durocher [00:00:51]:
I am pleasantly surprised by this question because it's funny. It isn't one that come up for me, like, just naturally coming up with ideas for this podcast. And I really like it because I've struggled with this myself too, wanting to have my own thing kind of all the time and maintain that side of me, the solo side, while also being committed to a person.
Amanda Durocher [00:01:17]:
I think it's such an interesting balance that we have to learn to create. It's like, yeah, how do we remain independent and feel free while also being in partnership where there are limitations. And we're not technically fully free, but how do we feel fully free anyways?
Amanda Durocher [00:01:33]:
Yes. How do we feel like we have space for ourselves to explore and still find out who we are. Right? Because when we meet somebody, it's not like we're done doing that. We still wanna have a rich internal world within ourselves. So, yeah, it makes sense that we don't wanna let go of that when we're with another person.
Amanda Durocher [00:01:54]:
And we talk a lot about the honeymoon phase. And I feel like during the honeymoon phase, we can lose ourselves because we get so wrapped up in the relationship. And I feel like it's when we're coming out of the honeymoon phase or later on, honestly, but I feel like that's maybe when you start to feel those tugs of wanting that independence again. Because I know that was true for me at least. Like, my first met Evan, we're just, like, wrapped up in each other, doing everything together, getting to know each other, realizing all our similarities. And it's not until there starts to be those those tugs, those pulls, those things that start to annoy you that you start to be like, ah, you know? And for me, it's a feeling of trapped. That's the word that I've said time and time again. I feel trapped in this.
Amanda Durocher [00:02:32]:
And we can talk more about that, but I've realized I'm never actually trapped in my relationship. It's always an inner thing I have to work through.
Amanda Durocher [00:02:38]:
It always goes back to us and what we're experiencing, and then we project it onto the relationship. And that's where fear comes in. Like, did I pick the right person? You know, I have to be with this person for the rest of my life. Like, oh my god. One person. You know? And so a lot of this stuff has to do with fear. Why do we wanna have individuality? Because we're afraid we could lose ourselves or we wouldn't have anything left for ourselves. We're so focused on our partner and our relationship.
Amanda Durocher [00:03:07]:
So definitely not comfortable to live with fear like that.
Amanda Durocher [00:03:12]:
And I can only speak for women or at least my experience as a woman, but I do think it happens for men too. But I think that women specifically have this inherent quality of caretaking, of taking care of other people. And you love your partner. Right? You love the person you're in a relationship with, so you want to take care of them. But I think sometimes if we're not conscious or we're not speaking our own needs, it's so easy to get wrapped up in their needs and to forget our own. And then you can feel like you're losing that independence. You're losing yourself.
Amanda Durocher [00:03:42]:
And I like that you point that out because I feel like it shows that having independence and individuality is something that we have to choose to do and to maintain because if we let it go to the wayside, I find for myself anyway that I'll run on autopilot and just allow myself to, like, slip away. It's something that we have to put effort into. It's another relationship that we put effort into, the one that we have with ourselves.
Amanda Durocher [00:04:10]:
I love that you brought up choice because I was thinking I feel like that's a big part of this because I thought about choice when you were saying something else earlier. Because even when it comes to feeling free, what I found is it's about the choices I'm making. Because sometimes when I feel really trapped, I feel like I need to let everything go. I need to run away. I need to move to Mount Shasta, and I need to give up my life, start over, open, like, a psychic shop or a bookstore, you know, something like that. And it's like that would lead me to freedom. And that's not true, but that's my fantasy realm of creating something entirely different because my current life feels trapped, where it's not that. It's not being alone, because that's also one of mine is I'll be free when I'm not around anybody.
Amanda Durocher [00:04:49]:
And that's a sign that I'm being codependent, that I'm taking care of other people, that I'm putting other people before myself. And the truth is, I think when it comes to creating that independence in yourself and within your relationships, it's all about choices. Like, you're choosing to be in your relationship. So that is a part of what you want, but you also have to choose yourself. It's all about balancing the choices you're making.
Amanda Durocher [00:05:09]:
Balance is a good way to put it because, I mean, there is the the whole thing of, like, making your partner a priority too. So your relationship is important when you make decisions. You know, you can't always be selfish, but the balance between serving yourself, serving the relationship, and just making sure everything is balanced.
Amanda Durocher [00:05:31]:
You mentioned before we started recording that we talk a lot on these episodes about how we go deep and how to communicate in your relationships. And this is a bit different. It's kind of like how do you connect back to yourself rather than connect within the relationship. But I find that the more I connect with myself, the more I am able to connect within the relationship too.
Amanda Durocher [00:05:50]:
And I wonder too if when we connect in our relationship, does it make it easier to connect with ourself too? Because, you know, we're being seen by another person. So I wonder it's like chicken and the egg thing. You know? Which comes first? Do you love yourself first or your partner? Maybe it's just this exchange all the time that's happening. But it's definitely, yeah, a priority that we make sure we're addressing our needs as we get closer and closer to somebody.
Amanda Durocher [00:06:17]:
Have you ever felt in your relationship like you were losing your independence? And if so, what did that look like?
Amanda Durocher [00:06:25]:
Definitely. My partner, Kai, he works pretty hard at his job. And to watch him sometimes, I get afraid that I'm getting lost in the shuffle of his career and stuff like that. Even though I have mine going on as well, it's just that insecurity that comes up of, like, oh my god. He's doing all this stuff, and I'm just, like, here. And I'm nobody. So that's the it's great having a dynamic, hardworking partner who's so charismatic. He's just great, you know, like, in so many ways, and I love him for that.
Amanda Durocher [00:06:54]:
But, also, I get afraid sometimes. I'm getting lost, essentially. And that goes back for me to childhood. So that's not, like, a new thing. That's a dynamic that I've experienced for a while, getting lost, being small, right, and just losing myself.
Amanda Durocher [00:07:08]:
Yeah. I can totally relate to that. But before I forget, I actually wanna touch on how you just said feeling small because I love that because I think I don't love that you feel that way, but I love that visual because I think that is how it feels when we lose ourselves in relationships or we feel like we don't have independence. It's like we feel like we're becoming smaller and smaller and smaller. And I think that's why for me, it feels like feeling trapped. Like, I think about it a lot of times when I feel trapped. It's that I feel like I'm caged. And it's like, what does an animal do when it's caged? It lashes out.
Amanda Durocher [00:07:38]:
It'll run if you open the door or it just becomes docile and just lies there like a lot of animals at the zoo, but we won't go into that today. But it reacts in these trauma responses, and that's what that trapped feeling is, and that's what it happens when we feel so small.
Amanda Durocher [00:07:53]:
Yeah. It's not a good feeling. And a lot of the time, it's not even because our partner is doing something there in your face too much. Sometimes it is. Sometimes a conversation needs to be had. Like, yo, I need my space. You're always up in my space and I have none. Right? But a lot of the time, it is actually just an internal we're used to shrinking ourselves for other people, so we're just doing that in the relationship.
Amanda Durocher [00:08:16]:
We're doing what we know how to do best, which is shrink. And that's the case for me. So, of course, it shows up in my relationship. That makes sense. It's a pattern that I play out all the time.
Amanda Durocher [00:08:27]:
I relate to yours where sometimes I feel like Evan is also he's really driven. He always has his steps forward. He's always, like, moving forward. And I will sometimes feel like I'm losing my independence when I'm going through a phase of feeling lost in my work, and I'm watching him succeed. And so often, it's because I'm keeping myself small in a different area of my life, and then it's playing out in my relationship.
Amanda Durocher [00:08:49]:
Definitely. We go in circles with ourselves, which is very frustrating sometimes. And how I've also noticed it show up, and this was interesting. I had this thought this morning. We decided to do this topic yesterday. And this morning, I don't know if I had a dream or something, but I woke up and I had this fear come up that was like, oh my god. The best part about me is Kai, is my relationship to Kai and the fact that I have this, you know, very impressive person that I'm with. And it was scary because it was like, there's gotta be something that I bring to the table.
Amanda Durocher [00:09:24]:
Right? So there's a fear of I don't have anything to bring to the table except for my partner. And I don't know if that's relatable to people. I just don't know. I'm sharing because it was just interesting the timing of how that fear came up after we decided this topic.
Amanda Durocher [00:09:42]:
Yeah. I think that is definitely relatable. I think a lot of people can relate to kinda placing their partner on a pedestal and really viewing them in such a bright light. And when we place somebody on a pedestal, we're a little bit below them. Mhmm. And so it's like we wanna balance that out at some point. I would say I swing the other
Amanda Durocher [00:09:57]:
way a
Amanda Durocher [00:09:57]:
lot of times where I'm like, I'm on a pedestal. Like, I'm amazing. And I have to bring myself down and be like, actually, I'm with a really, really amazing person. But I think we play out that dynamic of either being a little arrogant or a little self deprecating that that's where that can come up. So I do think it's relatable.
Amanda Durocher [00:10:13]:
You know what I've noticed too is that I can play the game of where he's on a pedestal, and then all of a sudden he's, like, the worst, you know, person ever if we're in a fight or whatever. So he can go from up here to, like, suddenly crashing down. Yes. It's just any kind of dynamic like that where you're putting somebody on a pedestal and then they come down. It's, like, kind of extreme thing and also, like, very much relying on your partner to give you something,
Amanda Durocher [00:10:39]:
which
Amanda Durocher [00:10:40]:
is a killer of individuality. They talk about codependent, which that's an a topic in itself because codependency can look so many different ways. But one of them would be you're deriving how you feel about yourself directly from your partner or other people.
Amanda Durocher [00:10:56]:
And that's a great way to lose yourself if you're deriving everything from one person because then you're not connecting back to yourself and you're losing what your own intention is, who you are. Because like you said earlier, in relationship, we're two different people. We're two individuals. And so we want to find that way to maintain the independence while also being interdependent.
Amanda Durocher [00:11:16]:
It pays off a lot too to be able to, like, own our own stuff. It means we get to deal with our stuff now, and we don't have to wait around for somebody to solve it, which, by the way, they can't. They can support you through something hard and emotional change and all of these things, but why wait around for somebody to come and save you from something when you can do it for yourself, and that's actually the best way to do it because you know yourself the best.
Amanda Durocher [00:11:44]:
That's actually making me think of, like, being a damsel in distress, waiting for someone else to come and save you.
Amanda Durocher [00:11:52]:
Yeah.
Amanda Durocher [00:11:53]:
And I'm like, as fun as that would be, is it fun? Is it fun? Because I think some of the most fun is gaining our own power is by seeing that we can be our own hero.
Amanda Durocher [00:12:06]:
With the support of our partner, which it's funny because I would say that Kai saved me in a way. I guess if I wanted to be, like, poetic, the relationship, it did. But there was a lot of work on my part. There was a lot of stuff that I did for me in order to fuel the success of our relationship and where it is now. And he did stuff on his own too. Right? But there is, like, a heroic quality to I'll speak for myself to my relationship, and I see that in Kai. And maybe that's just a fun little thing for me to see. But when I look at it, it's like, oh, no.
Amanda Durocher [00:12:41]:
We both did our work. We came together. We worked there. We love each other. It wasn't miraculous where we got. It took time and effort.
Amanda Durocher [00:12:49]:
I struggle with that too because it's like I guess it's the balance, like, seeing both. Because for a long time, I was like, I've done all this inner work. Like, I've done this. I got here on my own. Like, I did this. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Amanda Durocher [00:12:59]:
In a way, that's true. I was the only one who could look at certain things and the only one who knows myself and what I've been through deeply. Nobody will ever understand all of Amanda's pain and all of Amanda's joy. Nobody does. That's the joy of me. That's my life. Same with everybody else. I'll never fully understand anybody else.
Amanda Durocher [00:13:16]:
But then after doing so much work, I began to see how much Evan provided the space for me to do that, how he supported me through doing that, how he celebrated all my wins and things like that. So it's interesting because there's times where I'm like, oh my gosh. You did so much. You did everything. And then I'm like, I did everything. And the truth is somewhere in the middle where I needed a safe space to do a lot of this work, which he provided. I needed love. I needed compassion.
Amanda Durocher [00:13:42]:
I needed grace. I needed a lot of grace, and he provided that over and over again. It's like somebody can help you create that safety so that you can do a lot of this inner work we talk about and also create in the world. You know? You and I both have businesses, and we're both creators, and I find that so much easier having the support of somebody.
Amanda Durocher [00:14:00]:
Yes. Somebody who will love you through all of the
Amanda Durocher [00:14:03]:
Yes. Shit. Yeah. Because it's not this linear path. You know? Mhmm. Yeah. I think with the independence thing, what we're getting back to time and time again is that so much of this is about balance because you are in a relationship, so you are not independent.
Amanda Durocher [00:14:17]:
Yeah.
Amanda Durocher [00:14:17]:
Like, in a way you are, but you're not. You're interdependent. You live with somebody. You've created a new family, you know, for anybody married, and then you start to have children. And that can be a way you begin to lose yourself even more as the family structure gets bigger. And it just always comes back to balance because it's never gonna be all about you either. That's not how you create independence either.
Amanda Durocher [00:14:39]:
That's very true. And when we're talking about independence too, there has to be a safety in a relationship for that to happen, emotional safety of you can go and do your whatever it is you wanna do today, whatever hobby that you might have, and I'm okay here when we can have our different schedules on different days and still come together and connect and do that ebb and flow, the balance, like you said. But there's an element of I'm secure within myself so that you can go off and have your separate life and me, mine.
Amanda Durocher [00:15:12]:
Yeah. Because I wanted to say too when you were talking, what I thought of was that if you want independence in the relationship, you do also have to allow your partner to have independence as well. So there's this level of trust that comes in that you trust each other, that you can both be independent and do your own thing and not always know what each other's up to every moment. And that you'll come back together and that you've created this safe relationship together. And you'll communicate all the things that happened. Right? But it's knowing that you each have an independent journey within the relationship.
Amanda Durocher [00:15:47]:
And priorities and needs that pop up. Like, I'm very close with my aunt, and so we travel together. And so every once in a while, I'll go away for however many nights. And it's like, okay. This is what I'm doing to continue to be close with my family. And it gives us time apart, which I think is also great for individuality, having space to be on your own and miss each other in a way. Kai and I just had probably, what was that, 10 apart, and that was really interesting. I think it was good for us.
Amanda Durocher [00:16:18]:
You know? Just really, like, we spend almost every day together, although he goes to work and all that. But most of the time, we're together, it feels like. So, you know, to take some a few days apart here and there, I think that's probably a good thing.
Amanda Durocher [00:16:31]:
Yeah. Because I also wanna say that I think that getting wrapped up in your partner and feeling like you're losing yourself is bound to happen within your relationship. And we all lived through a pandemic. I know that that was really hard for me with Evan being around all the time. Like, I do need time to myself, and I definitely felt like I lost myself a bit during that time. I'd kind of freak out a bit. I mean, didn't we all freak out a little bit? I don't know. But I think that just remembering too, if you feel like, oh my god.
Amanda Durocher [00:17:00]:
I'm, like, losing myself. It's another thing, as we talk about in every episode, that ebbs and flows. But it's learning how to catch those moments quicker before you start to freak out like me with the trapped feeling. It's like, can I catch it before I feel necessarily trapped within the relationship? Can I just catch like, oh, I feel like Evan's running things right now? Where do I need to speak up a need? It's learning how to catch those things quicker, but we're always gonna get a little wrapped up within one another.
Amanda Durocher [00:17:27]:
That's a good point to make that there's nothing wrong with if you're having a phase where you're feeling a little bit lost in the relationship. That's totally fine. And everything goes up and down and ebbs and flows. Right? So it's just about, I guess, being aware of when that's happening and being able to address it. Although sometimes it just happens, and you just let it let the phase go by and ride it out ride out the store.
Amanda Durocher [00:17:52]:
And you said the word lost, which made me think, oftentimes, when I feel lost in life, I feel lost in my relationship as well. So a lot of times, I start to react in my relationship. Instead of being very compassionate, I start to be a little snippy. And it's one of those moments where I have to step back and be like, why is this happening? Is this him? Do I have to have a conversation with Evan, or is this me? And anytime I feel lost in life, which is more times than I'd like to admit because I'm always asking myself the question, what am I doing with my life? And my therapist says, that's too big of a question to ask yourself on the daily because it leads to feeling lost, like, that you have to have all the answers right away. But when I feel that way, I feel that way in my relationship. So then I start to lose that independence or feel that I'm losing that independence when truly Evan hasn't done anything to take away my independence. Because I think that's what can happen too is that we can start to resent our partner like they're taking away the independence I mean, maybe they're not actually doing anything at all.
Amanda Durocher [00:18:47]:
Most likely not. Although, I'm sure there are some partners that are doing that. But I can say for myself that it's like, if I put myself into a box, which I almost related to you know, I work from home in an apartment. So that feeling can come up physically. Like, I'm trapped in this apartment. And it's never true. It's like, okay. Yeah.
Amanda Durocher [00:19:06]:
You do have to work, but you could go somewhere and work. I'd like to take a walk every day to kind of shake that feeling off because it's a mental game, really. I'm trapped in this box, in this place, in this relationship. And we tell ourselves that lie. Mostly it's a lie anyway. And it's self inflicted
Amanda Durocher [00:19:26]:
a lot
Amanda Durocher [00:19:26]:
of the time, and then we wanna blame our partner, which is unfortunate.
Amanda Durocher [00:19:31]:
Yeah. I actually there was one point in my relationship when I felt really, really trapped, and I felt trapped in every area of my life. I just needed a break from my whole life. And part of that was, like, maybe I need this relationship to end. I don't know. Evan and I have been together since I was 19, so I started having all these thoughts of, like, I've never experienced anything without him in adulthood. Like, is that normal? What is normal? But is that normal? Is that okay? Like, oh my gosh. I'm trapped.
Amanda Durocher [00:19:55]:
I trapped myself at the young age of 19. I didn't know what I wanted then. Is this what I want? How will I ever know? And I was like, I'm so trapped. And so I was like, Evan, I'm leaving. I'm moving. It was so dramatic. I was like, I'm moving to Mount Shasta and I'm clearing out my four zero one ks and I'm leaving. And what was really helpful was I think he knew what was happening, but he was like, I'll pay for it.
Amanda Durocher [00:20:14]:
Like, how long do you wanna go? Like, let me help you find an Airbnb, whatever you need. All of a sudden, like, it hit me. I was like, oh, I'm not trapped. I could go anywhere I wanted. He was like, are you sure about Mount Shasta? What about the East Coast? Like, you can go anywhere you want. Do you wanna be by the beach? Why do you wanna be in the cold? And I was like, so many options. Yeah. I went from feeling like I was trapped like a rat to the world was endless, and it was this moment of humility that it was like I was never trapped.
Amanda Durocher [00:20:40]:
I just convinced myself in my head I was trapped. And then having that option, just having that door open was so helpful for me. I never left. I stayed exactly where I was. But it was like, okay. I'm choosing to stay. It was almost like I felt like all my options had been taken from me, so my choices came back. And then when I thought about it, it was like, I don't wanna leave.
Amanda Durocher [00:21:00]:
I'm so happy here. What is going on in my head? And I had to look at all the inner ways, but it was like I hadn't voiced how I felt to him before that I felt trapped, that it just I don't know. It just created all this freedom, but I needed to speak it how I felt.
Amanda Durocher [00:21:15]:
And it's almost like a simple conversation. You might be surprised what comes out of it, and your partner might surprise you by what they say. And I do believe for most couples, it's good to be transparent and open to a certain extent and still have your own speaking of individuality, like, and independence, having your own, like, secrets or whatever it is. Right? You know? Nothing, like, deep and dark, but just having our own little secrets is fun too. But I am a big supporter of just speaking very openly with your partner. And, I have been surprised by Kai by doing that, by speaking openly about my needs or my desires, whatever they might be, even if they're strange sometimes a lot of the time. He just sits there and he's very patient and accepting, and I'm very grateful that he will listen. Because that's part of my craving for independence is to have freedom, and freedom of expression is a big one of those.
Amanda Durocher [00:22:15]:
This is who I am. Like, all my cards are on the table. Take it or leave it. And so so far, he has taken it.
Amanda Durocher [00:22:21]:
I found that as well. So I feel like it may be more of a universal truth that I feel free when I can speak my truth. And I felt silenced so much of my life for different reasons, but I think that now I feel so free when I can just speak my truth. And so many times, it's like you said, where I think Evan will judge me, and then it's so freeing when I speak my truth and he doesn't judge me. And I'm like, oh, wow. That wasn't as scary as I thought, or I didn't have to have all these pent up feelings because he was accepting when I spoke my truth. And I love listening to him share his too. So it's like, of course, he loves listening to me.
Amanda Durocher [00:22:59]:
You know?
Amanda Durocher [00:23:00]:
So often, I think we feel like we might get bored with our partner. We know we've been with them for years, and we still have this amount left. But it's like, how can you get bored with somebody when you're constantly sharing the truth and you have that freedom? There's not a lot of room for boredom. You can be constantly surprised by your partner when you have that kind of, like, rapport with each other that you can share anything and be yourself. And I think it satisfies the inner child or that maybe the inner teenager or maybe both of, like, this is me. There you go. That individuality and that expression. And so it's almost the best method for individuality.
Amanda Durocher [00:23:44]:
Yeah. I was gonna say that's it. Like, you're saying it. Like, that's how we create independence within a relationship is being ourselves. Like, the more I am myself, the more I speak my truth, the more I allow myself to be seen in that creates that feeling of independence. Right? It's when we hide ourselves in general, like, hide ourselves being small, cater to other people, but, really, it's when we don't show up as our full authentic selves. I hate the word authentic at this point. It's been overused, but you guys know what I'm saying.
Amanda Durocher [00:24:09]:
Yes. But it's that's when we feel that independence because we're being seen in who we are.
Amanda Durocher [00:24:14]:
And we have hopefully, when we do this work, we end up having a supportive audience, but genuinely supportive person, partner that's there cheering you on most of the time. I know this is, like, in a perfect world. We're always cheering each other on. I think that's the goal. Like, it's almost like I get to be a performer for Kai is what it feels like. And not that I'm performing. I don't wanna put it that way. It's just, I have this yearning to be recognized that way.
Amanda Durocher [00:24:44]:
Like, wow, you're really a star. And so what better way to receive that than from my partner who knows me, you know, the most intimately?
Amanda Durocher [00:24:53]:
We've been both talking about feeling like a star and that star like quality. And the truth is we're all a star. And it's like the more we it sounds so cheesy, but it's like the more we are our unique selves, the more that, like, quality gets to come out, which is great. And I think that relationships is where you get to be that first because it's a safe space, and then it makes you feel safer to be that version of yourself, your unique bright self in other places, you know, when you go out in the world. But your relationship is where you get to be that first. And you can also be that with yourself first, but really being seen in it has that quality that creates that safety that I feel like helps you to bring it out into the world.
Amanda Durocher [00:25:31]:
That's funny that you say that because well, not funny. It's just true. It almost feels like I test drive certain parts of myself with Kai because I'm so comfortable with him. He sees me in my confidence. He sees me in my low points. He's seen all of it. So, yeah, it's like we get to play an experiment and then bring it out into the world. So in that way, I didn't even think of this coming into this conversation that it's almost like a workshop for individuality being in a relationship.
Amanda Durocher [00:26:00]:
If you can grow into that kind of a dynamic anyway.
Amanda Durocher [00:26:04]:
Because I think that you have to practice that vulnerability somewhere in order to be your independent self so your relationship's that safe space. But it is vulnerable even in your relationship. And I say that just because I think that sometimes when we're feeling small, it's because it's scary that fear is coming up about showing anybody that part of ourselves. So then we're blocking it. But when we're not allowing it out, then we start to feel small, then we start to feel like we're losing our freedom, we start to feel trapped, but we have to start expressing it. And what a beautiful place to begin expressing it is within your relationship.
Amanda Durocher [00:26:37]:
And I would say just take it slow. Just know that it takes time to slowly become more vulnerable. Vulnerability isn't something that we wanna just open ourselves up all of a sudden drastically overnight. We slowly open up like a flower. I think I've used that that metaphor here, like, a hundred times. But, yeah, we wanna let things unfold and don't force yourself to be more vulnerable. And it kind of happens naturally from what I've seen too. If I just think like, okay, I wanna be more vulnerable with Kai, you know, with the world, I wanna be more expressive.
Amanda Durocher [00:27:14]:
I noticed that, like, it will slowly happen naturally too. So just know that too that there is effort that we put in, and then certain things kind of happen on their own just with our intention.
Amanda Durocher [00:27:27]:
Yeah. And as we've been talking, it's made me think that for women at least out there, I think your relationship is a great place to begin the practice of taking up space. Like, so many of us are taught not to take up space, which would be that feeling of small, or we're taught to be in the background or to let other people shine. You know, we were talking about being a star, and everybody deserves to be whoever they want to be. And if you have an inkling or you have a desire, you know, follow it. That's what I found. I don't have all the things I've ever wanted, but they've all led me to more pieces of myself or more truths about myself. And it's when I don't follow those desires that I tend to cut myself off and begin to feel lost and things like that.
Amanda Durocher [00:28:12]:
And your relationship is a great place to explore those desires.
Amanda Durocher [00:28:15]:
All it takes is a conversation and maybe not even a conversation. Maybe you just start trickling your authentic self out there. And I'm sure I feel like our partners see it in us too. I know Kai, when I met him, he probably saw my star power, and he saw it within me. And now it's, like, slowly coming out. And I think you mentioned desires. I think that's a good place to start to wrap up the conversation because, ultimately, individuality, I think it's about desire. It's like, what do we desire to feel? Who do we desire to be and to be how do we wanna be received by the world, and how do we wanna express ourselves? It's all it goes back to desire.
Amanda Durocher [00:28:58]:
And I think something interesting about desire that this came to me in my twenties. But I always wanted to be an actress when I was younger. And but I just thought, how could I ever be an actress? Everybody else wants to be an actress. Because I just assumed everybody had the same desires as me. And it wasn't until my twenties that I realized I think I started telling people. I was like, I'm gonna move to LA to be an actress. And I learned most people I knew did not wanna be an actress. Nobody I knew wanted to be an actress until I moved to LA.
Amanda Durocher [00:29:26]:
But it was like this moment where it was like, oh, this is my desire. Like, this is what I want. This isn't what other people want. And I think that sometimes with our desires, we think like, why us? And things like that. And it's just, no. Those are yours. Those are uniquely yours. They are the blueprint to who you can blossom to be, to go back to that flower metaphor.
Amanda Durocher [00:29:48]:
And I one more metaphor. It's actually I'm reading that big magic book from Elizabeth Gilbert. And right at the beginning, she talks about how we get these jewels placed deep within us by the universe, and the whole game is that we get to find them as our life goes by. And so, anyway, this would be one of those instances. What are the jewels that make you unique? Nobody else has the same combination as you. Right? So who better person to bring your desire into fruition than you? So, anyway, it's funny. Like, I didn't expect this conversation to go there, but it makes a lot of sense. How do you feel that independence following your desires and and learning to weave that into also respecting your relationship and your partner throughout?
Amanda Durocher [00:30:35]:
I know. I didn't expect this conversation to go this way either. I'm like, ah, yes. This makes a lot of sense. I'm hearing it.
Amanda Durocher [00:30:39]:
As it's coming out
Amanda Durocher [00:30:40]:
of my mouth, I'm also interpreting it and being like, yes. This is truth for me as well. Yeah. But what I was thinking too when you were talking was that I don't believe anybody has to give you permission to do anything. But if you do need permission, I give you permission to go out and follow your desires. Because I think another thing women do is they think, I'll do this later. I'll do this when everybody else has hit their desires, then I'll do mine. No.
Amanda Durocher [00:31:04]:
It's gonna stay there. And then if you don't follow it, what I've found is it'll go away and then you'll feel numb and apathetic. And you're like, why do I feel numb and apathetic? And then that desire will come back up. It didn't really go away, but it like gets a little buried and then it comes back up and it's still that next step. And I liked that example you gave with the jewels because I find with the desires, they just lead to the next one. It's like this mystery we get to follow. I mean, life is the great mystery. People have been trying to solve it forever, and it's like, we're not gonna solve it.
Amanda Durocher [00:31:35]:
So just, like, let it go. It's It's a mystery, and it's fun. But I think that each desire just leads us to, like, the next desire, so you don't have to judge it so much. And I give you permission to go out there and just pursue your desires. And maybe your first step is even just setting boundaries in your relationship. Because I wanted to say that too. That maybe you do something you absolutely hate. Like, maybe you hate doing the laundry and you're like, no.
Amanda Durocher [00:31:58]:
No. I can't do this. And maybe you won't not do it forever, but maybe it's a big step for you to start speaking your needs. And maybe your needs right now are just to set boundaries, to create that space, to figure out what you desire, but maybe you have so much on your plate. Because I know this has been true for me in the past that I just took so much on that I couldn't even hear myself. I couldn't hear what I desired. I just knew I was losing myself. And it took me setting boundaries and saying no to things to then clear space to be like, ah, that's what I wasn't hearing.
Amanda Durocher [00:32:26]:
Boundaries are necessary, especially to just get it started. Like, okay. We're doing this. That's a boundary with yourself. We're gonna start doing this now, like taking this seriously. But we can also do it in very fun ways. Like I think in the same book, Big Magic, she talks about a friend, I think, who she used to be an ice skater until she was 15 and now she's 40 and she she hasn't skated since then, and she just picks up ice skates, gets a coach, and now she ice skates, like, two times a week. So my point is just it can be, like, kinda small.
Amanda Durocher [00:32:59]:
Maybe ice skating is actually kind of a big step, but it's fun. We we get to play. Like, we don't have to take it too seriously.
Amanda Durocher [00:33:05]:
That reminds me of this year, I picked up piano and singing. They were just two desires I always had. And I don't do them for anybody publicly, and I don't plan to ever. They're really creative outlets for me. But I'm a better person when I do them. I, like, can't explain it. But when I sit down and play the piano, I'm just a kinder person because I gave myself what I needed. And I only do it for, like, ten minutes a day.
Amanda Durocher [00:33:28]:
But I gave myself what I needed, and then I'm kinder to Evan. It's crazy to me that whenever I do the things that my heart's asking, which I think are the desires, I'm always a better partner. Mhmm.
Amanda Durocher [00:33:40]:
Yep. Make space for you, and then you show up differently in a better way.
Amanda Durocher [00:33:46]:
So that independence piece that we're talking about, it's like if you embrace that within your relationship, you will likely show up better within your relationship. And so often, we lose our independence because we think we're being the person that would be best in the relationship. Right? Like, catering to somebody else's needs and putting somebody else before you, we think that's the most loving thing we can do. But truly, you will be a better partner if you follow what your heart's asking. You follow those desires, and you find those spaces within your life for that independence. You will be a better partner within your relationship.
Amanda Durocher [00:34:20]:
I do wanna mention before we wrap up that this episode was all about independence, and I wanna share that we also have an episode about connection. And that one is really good for, you know, you're creating independence. You're showing up for yourself. Okay. How do we then connect back to each other? So I think that's a good balance of episodes. You have one that's I'm doing my own thing and then the other one where we're sharing, and there's a little bit of teaching in there about how to come back together in simple ways too. It's not super complicated to create connection in between independence.
Amanda Durocher [00:34:56]:
Because I think that balance is a big key, and I love mentioning both these episodes because as you and I talk about a lot, we can swing, like, the pendulum. And you might find when you start embracing independence, you might get really independent. And they're like, oh, I gotta connect again. And so it's like we said, there's ebbs and flows throughout relationships. You'll have moments where you're feeling that independence and moments where you feel lost or where you feel maybe codependent. It's not supposed to be that you feel perfect right now. I really think a lot of this is about learning to have the tools to pivot when you find these patterns or these ways of being arise.
Amanda Durocher [00:35:34]:
Mhmm. Yep. Agreed.
Amanda Durocher [00:35:35]:
Do you have any final tidbits or pieces of advice or thoughts on being and embracing independence within your relationship?
Amanda Durocher [00:35:44]:
I would say this is the end goal for me, personally, is to really have a strong balance of I'm living my life. I have my own career, and I feel really solid in that. And then I come to home, and I see Kyrie, and I feel solid about us. And then I feel supported by him, but I also feel like I'm supporting him. So that this is, like, an end goal for me to really nail individuality within a partnership. So I'm not quite there yet. Like, I'm not done, and I'm glad we talked about it because it was fun to just explore what was there.
Amanda Durocher [00:36:20]:
It's definitely a goal for me too. I can definitely still lose myself. And the last thought I had that popped in my head was that it's not selfish to want to feel independent and free within your relationship. I think it's a human right. I think you deserve to feel connected to yourself and also feel connected to your partners. I know that's something I've struggled with. I'll put it out there that sometimes these inner desires feel selfish. Like, who am I? Who am I to get everything I want? And the older I get, I'm like, life's short.
Amanda Durocher [00:36:50]:
I should get everything I want. Yeah. And there's things I won't get, but I can still go after everything I want, you know, and life will give me those things or it won't. There have been many things I've wanted, such as that acting career, everybody, that I haven't got in. But it doesn't mean I don't go after it and go along for the journey.
Amanda Durocher [00:37:08]:
I'm glad you mentioned that. It's not selfish. It's just we're here for the experience. I wanna wow myself by what I'm capable of. You know? I think that would be a fun, exciting experience for me of life. So, yeah, it makes sense that I wanna feel into my own gifts and desires. I like ending that way.
Amanda Durocher [00:37:28]:
Cool. Me too. Thank you so much for joining us for this episode. If you enjoyed this episode, we invite you to give us a five star rating and leave a review. Ratings and reviews really helps the podcasting apps to push our content out to more people. So we really appreciate your support, and it's a nice easy way to support us in the podcast. If you have any questions or you wanna connect with us, you can reach out to us at loveunderthescope@gmail.com. Thanks again for joining us as we looked at Love Under the Scope.
Kelby Knutt [00:37:59]:
Love Under the Scope is a New View Advice production. You can learn more about our podcast at newviewadvice.com/loveunderthescope. Theme music is by Tyler Knutt. Our podcast is produced by Amanda Durocher. Love under the scope.