139: Woman-to-Woman Sexual Assault: Healing from Betrayal & Exploring Workplace Grooming

Aug 27

In this episode, I address the rarely discussed topic of woman-to-woman sexual assault. I respond to a listener who bravely shares her story of being sexually assaulted by a coworker she trusted and saw as a close friend and mentor. As a survivor myself, I emphasize the importance of releasing self-blame — if you’ve experienced sexual violence, it is not your fault.

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We explore the painful reality that sharing a similar cultural background does not guarantee safety. I also explain what grooming looks like in the workplace, outlining its key characteristics. Throughout, we discuss the complex feelings of broken trust, self-blame, and the unique grief when harm comes from someone familiar. While everyone’s healing journey is different, I offer guidance and advice on how to begin moving forward.

Check out the New View Advice Healing from Sexual Trauma 🩵

Healing Sexual Trauma Hub

For Immediate Support (Not New View Advice Affiliated)

RAINN 24/7 Hotline: 1-800-656-HOPE (4673) | rainn.org
Free online community: aftersilence.org/forum

Reflections - Stories from My Journey Healing from Rape

Recommended Episodes 🎙️

Book Recommendation

Woman-to-Woman Sexual Violence: Does She Call It Rape? by Lori B. Girshick

Resources & Research ✨

Timestamps ⏱️

Intro – 0:05
Listener Question – 3:35
Poem - 42:12
Outro – 44:05

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This podcast was transcribed by an AI tool called Castmagic. Please forgive any typos or errors.
Amanda Durocher [00:00:01]:
Welcome to New View Advice with Amanda Durocher. Hi beautiful soul. Welcome to New View Advice. My name is Amanda Durocher. If you're new here, this is a healing centered advice podcast where I offer guidance for the healing journey. I do not believe I have all the answers you seek. I believe you have all the answers. You just may need a new View and a little help along the way.
Amanda Durocher [00:00:18]:
Thank you so much for joining me for today's episode. Today we are talking about women to women sexual assault. I am answering a question from a listener who was sexually assaulted at a work conference by another woman that they trusted. And and this listener, who is also a woman, is struggling with the aftermath of this experience. For anybody new here, I am a rape survivor and I have done many episodes on sexual violence, but I have not covered the topic of woman to woman sexual assault. This is a topic that I have not heard covered very often and I think it's a really important topic to cover because this is a reality that women do sexually assault other women. It's not just men who sexually assault women. Women can be sexually assaulted by other women.
Amanda Durocher [00:00:55]:
So I think it's a very important topic to cover. And I know of other women who have been assaulted by women. So I do want to reassure anybody here that you are not alone and that this is not your fault. In today's episode, we'll also be talking about grooming. I'm not entirely sure if this is an example of grooming, but when I read the question I did think this was possibly an example of grooming. So we're going to talk a bit about that. And through my research I actually found some articles on workplace grooming. It's not always sexual grooming, but we are going to talk about that in today's episode as well.
Amanda Durocher [00:01:25]:
We're going to talk about grooming in the workplace and we're going to talk about healing from sexual violence. My intention for this episode is to help you to be kind to yourself, alleviate some of the self blame you may be navigating, reassure you this was not your fault because this was not your fault, and offer some suggestions on how you can continue to move forward after this heartbreaking and devastating trauma. For anybody listening to this episode and is a survivor of sexual violence, I am so sorry. I am so sorry. If you have been raped, sexually assaulted, experienced sexual trauma in any way, navigating the aftermath of sexual violence can be very confusing, heartbreaking. This listener mentioned feeling shame, grief, all the feelings many of us are familiar with. So I just want to honor anybody here. Quick disclaimer.
Amanda Durocher [00:02:09]:
I think it's probably already clear, but this episode will be talking about sexual violence, sexual assault, rape, and that topic in general. So if you're not comfortable with that topic, feel free to turn this episode off or come back at any time. This episode will continue to be available so there's no rush to listen to this episode and if it becomes overwhelming at any point, please shut it off. Do what is best for you. There is no pressure to listen to this episode. My intention is really to help you to be kind to yourself and my goal is not to overwhelm you. It is really to reassure you and to help you to feel less alone. Before we jump into today's episode, I always like to mention that if you haven't already, I invite you to check out my website, newviewadvice.com on NewView advice.
Amanda Durocher [00:02:51]:
I have resources and content for the healing journey and specifically for this topic. I have a Healing from Sexual Trauma hub you can find there. You will also find today's Episode show notes at newviewadvice.com/139 on the episode show notes, I'll have links to the resources I used when researching this topic and preparing this episode. And I'll also have a link to the Healing from Sexual Trauma Hub and also to my poems. Also, I'm going to share a poem at the end of the episode that I wrote about a woman who was part of my sexual assault. I wanted to share that in this episode as well. So you can check the timestamps for that or you can just listen at the end of this episode 20 to that poem. So with that, let's jump on into today's episode and discuss woman to woman Sexual Assault Dear Amanda, I didn't know women could hurt women.
Amanda Durocher [00:03:38]:
I'm a married woman and a professional in a high pressure, male dominated field. I'm often one of the only women of color in my workplace and the isolation wears on you in quiet ways. So when I met a woman at work who shared a similar cultural background and understood the subtle dynamics I face every day, I felt seen. We clicked instantly. She became a mentor, a sounding board, and eventually a friend. She holds a higher title and I felt like I finally saw someone who looked like me in leadership. It made me believe that could be me one day. Nothing about our friendship felt unsafe.
Amanda Durocher [00:04:09]:
She was someone I looked up to, someone I laughed with. There were no red flags. I felt emotionally safe with her and I genuinely believed she had my best interest in mind. I had no reason to question her intentions. Then during a work conference, after a night out drinking, everything changed fast. We both had been drinking, but I never expected things to turn physical. I was caught off guard in the moment. I couldn't process what was happening.
Amanda Durocher [00:04:32]:
I didn't know how to say no. And I didn't know if I was even allowed to. I was scared and confused and I left as soon as I could. It felt like everything spiraled out of nowhere. Since that night, I've been trying to make sense of what happened. I felt everything. Shame, fear, guilt, anger, grief. I told my husband as soon as I could.
Amanda Durocher [00:04:51]:
He believed me. He saw my pain. He knew I didn't want this. His love has helped carry me through. But I still wrestle with the fact that I didn't see this coming. I keep asking myself, how could I not have known? Why didn't I stop it sooner? Can I ever trust myself again? How could I have hurt the person I love most? Why did my friend do this to me? I think what's harder is that no one told me this can happen between women. No one talks about female to female harassment or the way power dynamics can be subtle and emotional, not just positional. I believed she was safe.
Amanda Durocher [00:05:25]:
That's why I had my guard down. But similar backgrounds don't guarantee shared values. Vulnerability doesn't always feel like danger until it's too late. And when you've starved for connection in a place that constantly reminds you that you don't quite belong, you hold on tight to the people who make you feel seen. Even if they're not safe. This experience has turned my world upside down. I've lost a friendship I thought was meaningful. I have doubts about my own integrity.
Amanda Durocher [00:05:53]:
I feel like I failed to protect my marriage. But more than anything, I feel like I failed at protecting my integrity. Thank you so much for this question. I am so sorry this happened and I wanted to say that your question was so articulate. I felt your question deeply. Even right now I'm trying to fight back tears because I felt this question. What you and I have survived is different, but they're both forms of sexual violence. And I felt your question like what you described here is a unique experience to you.
Amanda Durocher [00:06:27]:
But also there's some universal truths in here and I just really wanted to honor that. And thank you for asking this question because are not alone. And you are bringing up some fantastic points. Some things I highlighted that I don't hear talked about a lot is similar backgrounds don't guarantee shared values truth. And we're going to talk a bit about that. Vulnerability doesn't always feel like danger until it's too late. Oof. I feel that deeply, and that is so true.
Amanda Durocher [00:06:57]:
And we're going to talk about that. And this made me cry the first time I read it. The when you're starved for connection in a place that constantly reminds you that you don't quite belong, you hold on tight to the people who make you feel seen, even if they're not safe. So true. And I want to thank you again for your question, because reading your question helped heal something in my heart. Hearing you articulate things that I've felt and I felt alone in has helped me to feel seen. And that's why I think these conversations are so important. Because as survivors of sexual violence, we are often encouraged to heal alone.
Amanda Durocher [00:07:35]:
And the truth is, we're not meant to heal alone. It's so much easier when we get to heal together and when somebody puts words to something that we've been circling. I wrote a story last fall called that Time I Was Betrayed by Women After Being Raped. And I talk a lot about the similar backgrounds don't guarantee shared values. And I talk about that in that. And I hadn't heard many people talk about that about that before, so I'll link that in the show notes if anybody's interested in reading it. But I just really want to thank you for this question because I think it's so important for us to continue to have these conversations. I think about sexual violence all too often, honestly, through this podcast and through my own experiences.
Amanda Durocher [00:08:14]:
But reading your question moved me because I saw myself in it. And again, we have very different experiences, but I still saw truths that I live with and things I've blamed myself for as well. You know, it's funny, I read your question and it's so clear. Do not blame yourself for this experience. But as a fellow person who has been through this experience of being sexually violated, I relate to the human part who does blame the self. So, again, I'm very grateful for your question. And I know if I was moved emotionally by your question, I'm sure we've got some other people out there too, who feel this so deeply, because being sexually violated in this way is hard to articulate. So when people put the words to it, it's healing for everyone.
Amanda Durocher [00:08:55]:
So. So thank you. And so up front here, I also want to say that this was not your fault. You experienced something very traumatic. In your question. You asked, why didn't I stop it sooner? And it's because you experienced Trauma. And when trauma happens, our brains go into survival mode. We do not act logically or rationally when we are in the midst of trauma.
Amanda Durocher [00:09:17]:
You mentioned trying to make sense of the experience and this was a traumatic event. This was violence, this was abuse. This was a woman in a position of power taking advantage of you. She knew what she was doing and you didn't know what she was doing. So I invite you to put the blame where it belongs, on her, not on yourself. That's the truth is that this was an act of violence. And self blame to me is a way that we try to control the narrative because it's easier almost to blame ourselves than to accept that something really shitty happened and we couldn't stop it, that we had no control over the situation and that we experience something traumatic. When we are experiencing trauma, we go into survival mode.
Amanda Durocher [00:09:54]:
We go into fight, flight, freeze or fawn. And it's not logical. So with that I wanted to talk about one. You are correct that we do not talk about woman to woman sexual violence. I have not heard this topic talked about at all. As I've mentioned, I know other people who have experienced this, but I have not heard it discussed before. And through my research I struggled to find resources on this topic and discussions on this topic. I found one book which I haven't read, but I'm going to buy it and read it because I find it interesting.
Amanda Durocher [00:10:24]:
But it's called Woman to Woman Sexual Violence. Does she call it Rape? By Laurie Gershick? And she focuses on the woman to woman specific experience. So I'm going to link that at the show notes@nuviadvice.com 139 because maybe somebody would find that helpful to read about other women's experiences. But I think that this is an important thing for us to mention that unfortunately this happens. Women are humans and it means that women can also be violent. I think most often violence against women happens by men, so we tend to focus on that. But the truth is women can be violent as well. We need to, as a society, stop grouping people based off of a characteristic and understand that humans are humans.
Amanda Durocher [00:11:06]:
And there may be more common things with women or with men, or with different groups of people. But truly we need to take each individual as an individual and understand that violent tendencies are a human characteristic, not gender specific. And unfortunately, we tend not to talk about the woman to women violence because I think it's so hard for us to wrap our heads around. As I mentioned, I have not experienced sexual violence from another woman, but Part of my rape when I was a teenager, there was another woman involved. And what I mean by that is that she knew what was gonna happen. She was asked to bring somebody who basically this group of boys could gang rape. I'm sure they didn't use those words. I'm sure they used other words.
Amanda Durocher [00:11:55]:
But she set me up. She knew what was gonna happen. She pretended to be my friend, and she was not my friend. She was a fellow abuser in a different sense of the word. So she may have not raped me, but she definitely did me dirty. And that was very, very hard for me to heal from. It was very hard for me to accept. It was hard for me to believe because, as you mentioned, just because you have a similar background as somebody does not mean you have shared values, and it doesn't mean you're the same as somebody.
Amanda Durocher [00:12:24]:
It was so hard for me to accept what this girl at the time did to me. She's a woman now, but what she did to me, because I viewed us as the same. I thought me and her were the same. We met and we bonded really quickly, which I think sometimes can be a red flag. I hate to say, because I want us to be able to bond with people super quickly, but she latched on. She honestly made me feel fantastic. She made me feel like the most important person in the world. And when I was researching grooming for this episode, which we're going to talk about next, I honestly was like, did this girl groom me who I went to high school with, because she knew what was going to happen? I don't know.
Amanda Durocher [00:12:58]:
I'll never know exactly what happened, but I did see the similarities in my experience with this girl and grooming. But anyways, she made me feel so special, and I thought we were best friends really quickly. And by the time I was raped, by the time she led me to a situation where I was raped, I hadn't actually known her that long, but I really did believe we were best friends. So it was a really hard part of my experience, and it's a part that we don't really talk about, that women can be involved in sexual violence. I know when I've told other women, they always say, I don't know why it feels so much worse when another woman does this. And I feel like it's the same with woman to woman. Sexual assault is. It feels like a whole nother layer of betrayal that another woman could do this to you.
Amanda Durocher [00:13:43]:
And so I just want to say I'm so sorry that this happened. I'm so Sorry, that it's something we don't talk about and we don't warn women about. I really do think we need to discuss it and we need to discuss it with young women so that people can understand that sexual violence can happen from all different types of people, not just men. And with your question, I also wanted to point out how you mentioned the similar cultural backgrounds doesn't guarantee they're the same as you. Unfortunately. I think in today's world we fall into that trap very often where we group people together based on cultural background or based on characteristics. And unfortunately, it doesn't make somebody trustworthy. And in today's world, we really like to group people together and say something about a whole group of people, but it's just not true.
Amanda Durocher [00:14:24]:
An entire group of people does not act one way. So all women don't act one way. All men don't act one way. All gay people don't act one way. All white people don't act one way. All different types of races don't act one way. So every group I just mentioned is filled with some of the most wonderful people you'll ever meet and some of the most abusive people you'll ever meet because they exist everywhere. Humanity is filled with beautiful humans and is also filled with people with nefarious and bad intentions, sinister people who do not think the way you and I do.
Amanda Durocher [00:14:58]:
If you're listening to this podcast, it likely means that you're an empathetic person. It means you're likely connected to your feelings, you're healing, you're growth minded. Not everybody thinks like us. People who commit these acts of violence, I don't want to say they can never change, but in the moment when they're committing them, they're seeking power and control. They are using the power they may already have, such as in your situation, being in a higher title at work. They're using that power for nefarious purposes, for manipulative purposes, and for abusive behavior. That's a reality that exists among all different kinds of people. And I know in my life that's been a humbling lesson time and time again because I'll meet somebody and I'll see myself in them.
Amanda Durocher [00:15:39]:
And when I see myself in somebody, I've made the mistake in the past of thinking we're the same. So, for example, I went through a period where I met a lot of sexual violence survivors and I thought we were all the same. I thought we were all trying to heal from this. I thought we were all, all compassionate people. I thought we all empathized with one another. That couldn't be farther from the truth. Some sexual violence survivors are healing. Some sexual violence survivors are kind people.
Amanda Durocher [00:16:04]:
Some sexual violence survivors want me to heal and be a better person. Some aren't. Some are mean. Some aren't healing. Some don't want the best for me. Some don't like me. I thought we were all going to be like on a train together, like going, woo, woo, let's heal. Couldn't be farther from the truth.
Amanda Durocher [00:16:22]:
Not true. And I look back now and I'm like, duh. Of course not everybody's healing. Of course not everybody wants the best for me. Of course not everybody likes me. Of course not everybody's good intentioned just because they've experienced the same trauma as me. This trauma has changed me so deeply, I just assumed it had changed everybody else in the same way. Not true.
Amanda Durocher [00:16:42]:
And I mention that because for you, it sounds like you went through some struggles in your work environment, being the only woman of color in your workplace. Like you said, it weighs on you in quiet ways meeting somebody with a similar background. I'm sure you saw yourself in her and you saw her a little ahead of you on a path right on this work path. You were like, oh, wow, like she's overcome the same things I've overcome. Wow, right? You saw yourself in her. And it sounds like you likely shared vulnerable experiences with one another. And you probably saw your experience even more and you felt validated as you mentioned, you felt really seen. And the truth is, from your question, you and this woman are not alike at all.
Amanda Durocher [00:17:18]:
Just because you have a similar background, you are not similar people. You would not do what she did to you. And so I mentioned that because I just think it's so important for us to all continue to remember, especially as we engage with social media and algorithms that feed us the idea that everybody thinks the same as us or everybody looks the same as us, or everybody's doing the same thing. No, especially when it comes to social media. You are being fed an algorithm where everybody thinks the same as you do. Or they'll give you an algorithm where everybody is the exact opposite and you'll feel really divided again. No, we all share that humanity aspect, even people who are disconnected from their humanity. At the end of the day, they're humans and they've been through human things, but they're also not the same as you just because of a characteristic or because of a shared lived experience.
Amanda Durocher [00:18:08]:
Not true. And so it's just important to remember that and to one remind ourselves it's okay if we've fallen for that trap of sameness, because, of course, we want people to be safe and we want to see them as the same as us. We want to find people similar to us where we feel seen. There's something so beautiful about being seen. It's a reason I love sexual assault support groups, is that when I go to these groups, I feel something soften in me. I don't have to justify myself to anybody. We all just get it, and it doesn't make us all the same. But there's something we all share about what we survived, and we all just understand each other.
Amanda Durocher [00:18:43]:
I never feel like I have to defend my experience as a rape survivor. In these rooms, I can just soften a bit. But with that, I also have to remember that I'm in a room of other humans. And as I build trust and I build vulnerability with people, it's not to give it all away at once. We don't want to give our trust away. Based off of this one shared experience. I always talk about Brene Brown's marble Bajar example, but if you're unfamiliar with it, Brene Brown is a shame and vulnerability reason researcher. She is wonderful.
Amanda Durocher [00:19:10]:
Her book Daring Greatly is one of my favorites, if you're interested in reading more about vulnerability and shame. But she gives this example in her book about how her daughter, when she was young, was in school. And when explaining trust to her daughter, she explained the marble jar. So her teacher had a jar that when the kids did something good, they would get marbles in the jar. And when they did something that was harmful to the class or they were disruptive or they weren't paying attention, she'd take marbles out. And so Brene explained to her daughter that trust is similar, that when you have somebody in your life who does something trustworthy, like they pick you up at the airport, they keep your secret, they remember your birthday, you put a marble in the jar. But when they do things that are untrustworthy, you take marbles out. So maybe they don't pick you up from the airport, or maybe they tell somebody your secret, or maybe they undermine you, or maybe they say something hurtful, you take it out.
Amanda Durocher [00:19:55]:
And so over time, that trust builds. But we don't just fill it up right away. We allow that jar to build over time. And so I mentioned that here because sometimes when we meet somebody who has the same experience as us, we want to just give them a full marble jar because we see ourselves in them, they see us. We finally feel that Empathy for ourselves and for them. And it feels like we just met our soulmate in a way, when the truth is we're all individuals with individual experiences. So I think in every relationship there'll be moments where there are marbles taken out of the jar. It's just, is the jar more full or is it more empty? So that was a bit of a tangent, but I wanted to mention that here because you also asked about trust with yourself.
Amanda Durocher [00:20:31]:
Will you be able to trust yourself again a hundred percent. This experience will actually teach you to trust yourself more. I know you may doubt me on that, but I have found sexual violence has been the way that I have learned to trust myself the most because it has connected me back to myself the most. And the more I feel my feelings, the more I validate myself, the kinder I am to myself, the more of a trustworthy person I become. And the more I learn about true trust and I learn about true self love. But it takes time. And I invite you to be patient with yourself. It's not an overnight thing.
Amanda Durocher [00:21:02]:
This person preyed on you and it is not your fault. So you are still trustworthy. And I know you said there were no red flags. I don't want you to look for red flags to blame yourself. And that's what I worry about. Hearing your question is that you're looking for red flags as like a way to blame yourself. I mentioned this in an episode recently, but red flags sometimes we use as a way to blame ourselves, that if we find a red flag, we can be like, I should have known better, shoot. And then we kind of berate ourselves where red flags are just moments in time where we can look back and go, oh, if I see that type of behavior again now, I'll know to have that red flag go up.
Amanda Durocher [00:21:36]:
Red flags aren't reasons to run either. I think we all can have red flags. You know, sometimes I can like cry in the grocery store. I don't know, I'm a big crier and somebody might call that a red flag, like that chick's crying in the grocery store. I don't think I'm a bad person because I displayed a red flag. I was having a hard day, but I mentioned that just because I don't want you to use red flags as a way to blame yourself if you do notice red flags as you continue to heal. So I also wanted to mention, with you mentioning the cultural background, having a similar cultural background, that I do just want to say that it's so human that you were searching for belonging because you work in a place where you don't feel seen, where you probably see people who look alike and get along in a certain way, right? Like a male dominated industry. And you don't necessarily fit in entirely.
Amanda Durocher [00:22:22]:
You have to probably change yourself a bit or you worry you have to change yourself, or you just don't feel entirely comfortable. When you met a woman who looked like you, talked like you and validated you, you were felt seen, right? We're all searching for that scene, that connection. And when you had that, of course you opened up to vulnerability because you were in a vulnerable place, because you felt kind of put down would be my guess. And then when somebody opens a door and they say like, come here, I see you, you're vulnerable. And I want to mention that because this can lead to grooming and emotional manipulation in the workplace. Because when people who are predators and who are looking to groom people and are looking to target somebody that they can have power over, they're looking for somebody who is vulnerable. And so I wanted to talk a bit about grooming because I don't know if this is a grooming, I don't know everything about your situation, but I did wonder if this was a case of grooming. And so when we talk about grooming, we often talk about it in terms of children and teenagers, but grooming can happen at any age.
Amanda Durocher [00:23:20]:
And actually, as I mentioned when I was researching this episode, I found multiple articles on grooming in the workplace. So I think it's a common place where people are groomed in adulthood. And so for anybody unfamiliar or unsure of what grooming is, I did want to define grooming. And so I found this definition of grooming on WebMD and it says sexual grooming is when a sexual predator builds a relationship with a child or adult to abuse and exploit them. They build trust, but use it to control, isolate and abuse their victims emotionally, physically and sexually. A groomer often comes across as charming, helpful and kind. At first. It can be easy to trust them and lower your guard.
Amanda Durocher [00:24:02]:
But they often use threats, violence or other coercions to force you into sexual activity you don't want. And they tend to target vulnerable people. And then I found this definition for workplace grooming on allvoices co but I wanted to give this definition as well. And it says workplace grooming is a pattern of conduct in which one individual, typically in a position of authority or influence, manipulates, befriends or establishes a relationship with another individual, often a subordinate or less powerful colleague, for the purpose of exploiting them emotionally Psychologically or even sexually. It also mentioned key characteristics of workplace grooming, which include building trust. So building trust with their targeted person. This often includes befriending this person and becoming close and really giving them special attention. The second is isolating the person.
Amanda Durocher [00:24:54]:
So this would be having conversations, just you two, a lot of one on one time. This could be after hours during work, but it's really spending a lot of time with just the targeted individual. The third characteristic is flattery, favoritism or filling a need. So this is that the groomer might excessively praise or favor the person they're targeting. They might really compliment them and make them feel special. This is really common with grooming, is that you're groomed, right? So you're being flattered, you're being emotionally manipulated to think that this person really cares about you and they're giving you a lot of special treatment. This then can lead to manipulation. So groomers may use subtle manipulation tactics such as guilt tripping, gaslighting or emotional blackmail to control the victim.
Amanda Durocher [00:25:39]:
This also can include boundary violation. So personal boundaries are often crossed and the line begins to blur, especially in the workplace setting, between professional and personal relationships. So oftentimes before they would do a sexual act, they would begin to cross those boundaries. So they would begin to make the relationship a little murkier and a little less clear that it was a work relationship. This is all actually done before the instant everything I've mentioned. And then the exploitation happens. So after the trust has been built, after you feel like you're friends with this person, after the boundaries and clear and you feel like you have a real personal connection with this person, then this person would commit an act of sexual violence or a different form of power control. But what they're really doing is exploiting the victim's vulnerability, either for personal gain, advancement in the workplace, or for a real sinister purpose or for a very violent purpose such as sexual violence.
Amanda Durocher [00:26:34]:
And so I wanted to mention that here because unfortunately, when it comes to grooming, it's not until afterwards that you could possibly see it. Because we don't want to think that somebody who's doing these things is doing this for a harmful purpose. As I mentioned, there was a woman involved in my sexual assault. She brought me to the situation, she knew it was going to happen, she was told to bring somebody. And when I was researching grooming, I couldn't help but wonder, did she target me? Like, did she see my vulnerabilities? Because like I said, we weren't friends for very long before I was sexually assaulted. But I thought we were best friends. I look back now and I'm like, oh, my God. The whole thing might have been a lie.
Amanda Durocher [00:27:09]:
I actually thought maybe we were friends, and she was just, like, the shittiest friend of all time. But I'm like, she could have literally been grooming me for that purpose. I don't know. But I do see all these things mentioned here are things that this girl did to me, and it's like, mindbreaking. Like you said, your world was turned upside down. When we experience this type of stuff that our brains can't comprehend, it is literally mindbreaking. I've talked about it in a lot of episodes about sexual violence, but experiencing this trauma is discombobulating, because it's trauma. So it lives in the body, and it comes up at weird times.
Amanda Durocher [00:27:39]:
And we often suffer from ptsd, so we suffer from flashbacks. There's a lot of shame involved. There's a lot of very difficult feelings. And also with all that, your view of the world is changing. So it's like a glass has shattered. A mirror shattered. Right? You looked at the mirror, you saw one version of yourself. You saw one version of the world, the mirror shatters, and now you're rebuilding it with a more truthful mirror.
Amanda Durocher [00:27:59]:
But you probably don't like what you're seeing. So it takes time. Because when we accept that we live in a world where people groom people, where people rape people, where people are violent towards people, where most crimes of sexual violence are committed by somebody the victim knows, for most of us, that's breaking the view. You thought of the world. You thought the world was a little bit more safe than that. For example, with you, you thought you could trust somebody with a similar cultural background, or maybe you just thought you could trust people. And I remember talking to somebody recently who had also experienced sexual violence and was talking about how one of the hardest things for her to grapple around with trust was that, sure, you can expect people to break your trust. She had experienced betrayals throughout her life, but nothing to this extent, Nothing violent, nothing that had changed her life to such a degree.
Amanda Durocher [00:28:44]:
It had been people who broke trust in smaller ways, but she had never experienced this sort of violation. And I mentioned that just because for anybody healing from this trauma, if you feel a little crazy, if your mind feels a little broken, there is nothing wrong with you. I feel like that's part of healing from this trauma. I used to have a friend who we would always joke about that our brains were broken because this trauma does something to your brain. And it just takes time to heal. Time and intention, self care and self love, reminding yourself that this was not your fault. And that's why I wanted to share all this information about grooming. Because when we can wrap our heads around the fact that people groom people and this is a reality, it is devastating to know.
Amanda Durocher [00:29:23]:
You live in a world where people are this nefarious and people are this ill intentioned and are this abusive, but it reminds us that it's not our fault. It's like, oh my God, this person purposely did this. I didn't know this type of person existed in the world. I didn't know people's brains work like this. I didn't know anybody would be my friend so that they could sexually violate me. I would never in a million years think that that would happen. And in your example, woman to woman, oh my God, of course your world is turned upside down. Woman to woman, sexual violence is one, not talked about.
Amanda Durocher [00:29:56]:
Two, it was somebody you trusted. Three, this is such a deep betrayal. And four, sexual violence to begin with is mind breaking. Of course. Be kind to yourself, be slow with yourself, be gentle with yourself. This is a reality that nobody should ever experience. You don't deserve this. This is not how humans should treat each other.
Amanda Durocher [00:30:16]:
The reality is this is real. But it doesn't mean they should treat each other this way. It doesn't mean you deserved to be treated this way. I know for me, I lived with a lot of self blame for a very long time. And so much of healing is just seeing the truth of the situation. And I couldn't have stopped the situation. I was vulnerable, I didn't know how the world worked. I trusted the wrong people.
Amanda Durocher [00:30:37]:
You know, I used to really beat myself up for that one. And the truth is, what? Am I going to beat myself up for the rest of my life because I trusted the wrong people? No. And you don't deserve to either. We as humans desire love, connection and friendship and partnership. It's vulnerable to open up to another person. It's brave to. And this person took advantage of you. They took advantage of your vulnerability and your heart.
Amanda Durocher [00:31:04]:
That's heartbreaking. It's not your fault though. And so before I move on, I wanted to mention that. Why did I see the grooming thing in your question? I think it was with the lines. Vulnerability doesn't always feel like danger until it's too late. And when you're starved for connection in a place that constantly reminds you that you don't quite belong, you hold on tight to the People who make you feel seen, even if they're not safe. And this made me wonder if this woman understood how vulnerable you were and how much you were seeking connection and she saw you and she preyed on you and she targeted you. And if that's the truth, I am so sorry.
Amanda Durocher [00:31:40]:
I'm sorry either way, but it's like mind breaking that there are predators out there. And I grew up in a town that to this day people would say, oh, my gosh, it's such a safe, beautiful place. It was not safe. I had a lot of horrible things happen to me in that town. I know a lot of women who had horrible things happen to them in that town. It was just pretty on the outside, it looks safe. So we want to believe it's safe. It's not.
Amanda Durocher [00:32:03]:
And that's what we have to understand about the world, is that many people aren't safe. That's not our fault, though. And so many of us are sold false narratives that the world we live in is safe just because it is. Or that if we know somebody that makes them safe. Again, that's not true. Most sexual assaults happen by somebody we know. It also happens by strangers. And I'm not trying to invalidate anybody, but for this episode, I just think it's really important because also with women, to women, sexual assaults, I do think it's very common that the women know each other.
Amanda Durocher [00:32:35]:
I think that when it comes to woman, woman sexual violence, very common. You're going to know the woman who does it. Which that's not to make anybody fear their friends or anything, but it's to validate your experience that you're not alone in this, that unfortunately this happens, and that all the feelings you're having are valid. This was a betrayal. You were feeling grief, anger, guilt. I'm so sorry that you feel guilty. This person knew you were married and they did this anyway. It was not your fault in any way.
Amanda Durocher [00:33:05]:
I'm really glad your husband's supporting you through this. Healing from sexual assau takes time and requires supportive loved ones. So I'm glad he's supporting you through this. I really want to reassure you that this says nothing about your integrity. You are a good person. You were vulnerable and you were taken advantage of. That's devastating, heartbreaking. And right now you are rebuilding.
Amanda Durocher [00:33:23]:
You are rebuilding something that probably feels a bit shattered. I know that's how I felt. Through healing from sexual assault. I know a lot of people say you're never broken, and I really believe we're never broken in the big Scheme of life in our soul. I get that. But also when you survive sexual violence for a little bit, you do feel broken. And there's nothing wrong with feeling broken. And there's nothing wrong with tending to your inner self.
Amanda Durocher [00:33:46]:
You know, I think about when we break a leg, our leg heals, comes back together, it's whole again. But it needs time to heal and repair. It's same with these type of traumas. Violence to me, I feel like breaks the spirit in a way. That deep, deep betrayal you experienced that a friend could do something so hurtful takes time to repair. It takes time to heal. That's why it's the healing journey, because we're healing, because you experienced pain and now we're healing. There's nothing wrong with that and there's nothing wrong with you, but it's okay if you feel all your feelings.
Amanda Durocher [00:34:20]:
I found through this trauma that I have to allow myself every feeling that arises with no judgment. And throughout my journey, I've judged myself for feeling so deeply. But when something so violating happens, it just deserves to have all the feelings. That's all I can say over and over again is that the journey home to self is allowing those feelings and finding ways to process those feelings. And that leads me into steps for healing every person's journey. Healing from sexual violence and healing from anything is going to be different and individual. But these are some pieces of advice I offer for healing from this trauma. Because again, it takes time.
Amanda Durocher [00:34:56]:
But lean into self care and taking care of yourself. You lived through a big trauma, and so right now you need tender, loving care. You need to hold yourself like you would hold a little child, or that you would hold your best friend, or the way you would treat your husband if he was hurt. You need to be extremely kind and patient with yourself. It's a disorienting trauma. There's different traumatic impacts that happen. It'll be different for everybody. But it sounds like you may be struggling a bit from ptsd, replaying flashbacks and things like that.
Amanda Durocher [00:35:28]:
And so with that, I also invite you to look for a therapist, if you haven't already. I found EMDR really helpful on my journey, healing from sexual violence. It didn't fully heal me. You know, there are things I still navigate, but it definitely helped with the flashbacks and with the feelings of panic, terror, and the feelings where I felt out of control and the terror is what's really coming up in my mind. EMDR really helped with that. Talk therapy. I think finding words for the experience is part of the healing journey. I think we have to balance talk therapy with somatic therapy.
Amanda Durocher [00:35:59]:
So finding ways to get in the body and moving the trauma that tends to live in the body. There's a lot of healing from sexual violence that I find there aren't the words for. And then there are pieces that we want to find the words for, if that makes sense. But I think that finding support is really important when healing from sexual violence. You were never meant to experience this, but you also are not meant to heal from it alone. So again, I thank you for this question because I think these conversations are so important. But I invite you to look for a therapist, maybe a support group. I found support groups really helpful along my journey because as with your question, when I read it, I was like, dang.
Amanda Durocher [00:36:32]:
She put words to things I felt and in a way I hadn't articulated before. That's what support groups do. They help us to put language to things that we're feeling or navigating that maybe we've been circling and we didn't have the words for. And with this question, with women to woman sexual violence, I think it can be even harder because we so often feel like we have to heal alone. We live with so much self blame and shame. Not everybody, but a lot of people live with self blame and shame that they feel like they have to navigate it by themselves or people will at the beginning confide in the wrong person. For example, if you confide in a family member who react in a way that's hurtful or harmful, it can cause people to even more isolate. For anybody out there who has confided in somebody who gave a hurtful response, you did not deserve that response.
Amanda Durocher [00:37:16]:
It does not mean it was your fault. I know many people who have tried to open up to somebody and they were blamed in that moment and they carry that self blame, that person's reaction that you confided in. I'm so sorry if it was hurtful. I've had that experience too. It's devastating. But at the end of the day, I learned a lot. And with that self trust, I had the same thoughts you had. How do I know if I can trust myself? It's through living.
Amanda Durocher [00:37:38]:
It's through life. It's through learning from past mistakes that we learn we can trust ourselves. I wish it was easier and we just knew we could trust ourselves and we could just go through life on a steady little path. Not how it works. Life's not linear. Many times our failures, our mistakes, and those deep betrayals are the things that teach us the most and that's part of the human experience. And instead of making ourselves wrong for it, it's accepting it and understanding that nobody's life is perfect. And these don't define us.
Amanda Durocher [00:38:07]:
These experiences, our choices and who we become from them is what defines us. I really believe our choices and who we choose to be day to day is what defines us. Not what somebody does to us. It's what we do with the life we still have. So choosing to heal, choosing to love yourself, choosing to have all your feelings, that's who you are. Choosing to love your husband, choosing to lean into him for support, because that's what I wanted to mention is that as you're healing, I invite you to continue to feel that support from your husband. You're not meant to heal alone. And I wanted to say allow him to help you.
Amanda Durocher [00:38:38]:
It sounds like he wants to help you on this journey and I invite you to allow him to help you. Because I know throughout my journey I really pushed people away, specifically my partner Evan. I pushed him away many times because I felt unworthy and I blamed myself so much and I just would push away his love and support. And it's one of my regrets. I think that I really should have allowed him in a bit more. But I was in such a self hating place that it was so hard for me to allow people in. I think for anybody out there, lean into your loving support system. The last thing I wanted to mention was finding ways to be intentional with your feelings and to move those feelings can be really helpful.
Amanda Durocher [00:39:12]:
Finding ways that you process your feelings. So for me, journaling is huge for processing creativity. But finding what helps you to process your feelings. Maybe it's taking a bath and just allowing yourself to unwind. You can really feel your feelings when you're in the bathtub. Maybe it's listening to music. I think music is a beautiful way to help us process our feelings. Maybe it's conversations with loved ones, maybe it's spending time in nature.
Amanda Durocher [00:39:35]:
Maybe it's going to sound baths. Maybe it's going to yoga classes. Maybe those help you to feel your feelings. Being in a group environment and not having to talk about the experience. I found sound baths to be very helpful on my healing journey. When I feel like my nervous system's all over the place, I like to find a sound bath in my area. And if anybody doesn't know what a sound bath is, it's where they play bowls, like sound bowls. And it's like a group meditation where you just get to relax very often.
Amanda Durocher [00:39:58]:
That's what it is. So before I wrap up this episode, I just also want to reassure you that you will move through this. It's painful. I acknowledge that you will not be here forever, though it sounds like you're pretty close to the incident and that can be some of the most disorienting time. Cuz there's so much coming up at once. It also sounds like you may still work at this place. And I invite you to really reflect if you can still work with this person. Because I also know other people who are sexually assaulted in their places of work and they didn't feel safe until they didn't work there.
Amanda Durocher [00:40:28]:
And that's a devastating truth that sometimes you have to be the one to leave. And that doesn't feel fair. But you have to do what's best for you. That's part of self care, is doing what you need and thinking of you right now because you deserve to feel safe and to move forward. So I just want to mention you won't be here forever. And on those moments where it feels awful, just remind yourself you will not feel this way forever. Whenever I feel hard feelings, I swear to God to this day, I still think I'm going to feel this way forever. And I just remind myself over and over again, I will not be here forever.
Amanda Durocher [00:40:55]:
I will not be here forever. And again. I know I've said it so many times. What you went through is not your fault. I am so, so sorry. But if you can take anything from this episode, I invite you to take the blame off yourself. It's so common when it comes to sexual violence to blame ourselves, but it's not your fault. Truth is, bad things happen to good people.
Amanda Durocher [00:41:14]:
You did nothing wrong. This person committed a crime. I always like to mention that in these episodes too, because very often we don't go through the legal system. I don't know if you're planning on pressing charges. It doesn't sound like it, but I want to remind you this is a crime. Grooming is a crime. Sexual violence is a crime. And that this person committed an act of violence.
Amanda Durocher [00:41:36]:
This was not your fault. Let yourself off the hook right now or whenever you can today. Give yourself a big hug. Tell yourself, I am so sorry. You deserve so much better. I love you so much. Thank you so much for this question. I hope something in this episode was helpful.
Amanda Durocher [00:41:55]:
I feel like my imposter syndrome always comes up with these episodes about sexual violence because it's a hard topic to talk about, even for me. So thank you so much. And now I'm gonna Share a poem and then I'll wrap up the episode. So, as I mentioned, I wrote a poem about the girl that led me into my own experience of being raped as a teenager. And this question, as with many questions, when I receive it, it really gets me reflecting on my own life. And I go through a healing right alongside with you. And for me, I had some unprocessed stuff around this girl and what she did to me. And this poem helped me to process some anger, which you'll hear throughout the poem.
Amanda Durocher [00:42:38]:
And the truth is, I don't like this person. I don't really know how I feel better right now. But this poem right here, I was able to leave something behind, you know, by writing it and putting it out into the world. So here we go. I call it, do you live with regrets? Do you live with regrets? Because I have quite a few. One of them being spending time with you. Do you regret what you did? Do you feel guilt for your actions? Or have you rewritten the story for your own satisfaction? Have you convinced yourself that it wasn't so bad, that I'm overreacting for being so mad? If that's the case, then you should be locked up, because what you did is truly fucked up. You set me up and threw me in hell and spit in my face as I reached for help.
Amanda Durocher [00:43:16]:
It's taken me years to wade through the wreckage, to find all the pieces lost in the carnage. For you hid behind lies, beauty and deception. You were better at the game, twisting everyone's perception. For a very long time I wanted you to repent, to acknowledge my pain and share your intent. Why did you do it? Why did you pick me? Why did you twist the knife as I cried on my knees? But I've waited long enough to hear your side of the story. You're clearly not changing or taking accountability. And now I see the truth that we are not alike, for our choices define us. And yours I very much dislike.
Amanda Durocher [00:43:45]:
So I'm leaving you in the past, for that's where you belong. In this old chapter book where I labeled myself wrong and here in the present I set myself free and start a new book where it's safe to be me and live a happy life where joy and truth prevail and my embodiment of love will balance the scales. Thank you so much for joining me for this episode and for listening to my poem there at the end. As always, I'm so grateful to everyone who listens and joins me for these episodes each week. This week, I wanted to put out there that if anybody has any resources on woman to woman sexual assault or workplace grooming, or wants to dive deeper into these topics or wants to share their story, I'd love to continue these conversations. I don't think these are topics covered very much, and I'd love to share more resources in the show. Notes As I mentioned, I struggled to find resources on these topics, which shows me that these aren't talked about very often. So if you have resources or you want to continue the conversation, reach out at contact@newviewadvice.com and we can continue to bring awareness and healing to these topics.
Amanda Durocher [00:44:49]:
Thank you so much for joining me for this episode. I hope I was able to offer you a new view on whatever you may be going through. Sending you all my love. See you next time.